Tyrone Gordon: Upward to God, outward to humanity

Young adults are hungry for a spiritual home that feeds the soul and offers opportunities to help others, says the pastor of St. Luke “Community” United Methodist Church in Dallas.

This video clip is also available on iTunes U.

The failure to reach out to a new generation of leaders poses an imminent danger to the vitality of the United Methodist Church, said the Rev. Tyrone Gordon, pastor of St. Luke “Community” United Methodist Church in Dallas.

In July 2002 Gordon was appointed to St. Luke, which has a membership of 5,000 and a strong program for church youth. Gordon, who has a master’s of divinity degree from Perkins School of Theology at Southern Methodist University, previously served as senior pastor of Saint Mark United Methodist Church in Wichita, Kan. While he was there, Saint Mark was among the fastest-growing African-American congregations in the UMC, increasing from 350 members to 2,500.

Gordon spoke with Faith & Leadership in October 2009 at Convocation & Pastors’ School at Duke Divinity.

Q: What do you see as the greatest challenges in leading the next generation?

I don’t think we’re really training people of the next generation. A lot of our students in seminaries across the country are second career. That’s fine, but a young adult will probably have a different world perspective than a lot of us more mature people. Issues that we had to deal with such as seeing the globalization of society, relations with people of other ethnicities and cultures, are not issues for that generation. We’re not bringing them on board and exploring a call for spiritual leadership within our churches and our society.

Q: At an African-American UMC gathering in 2003, you preached about the exodus of young people from the UMC. In the years since, have things gotten better or worse?

We have pockets where you see churches that do well reaching young people, but overall we are still anemic. We’re still suffering. You can go into many of our churches and see no young people -- everybody’s 50, 60 years and above.

It isn’t so much that young people don’t go to church as that they don’t go to United Methodist churches because we’re not meeting their needs. They want to know, “Does it speak to my needs? Does it challenge me to go beyond myself, to [provide] hands-on ministry helping others?” Young adults are starving for that.

Q: In Christian Smith’s book “Souls in Transition” he says 18- to 24-year-olds are the least religious among adults in the U.S. today. What can the church do to combat that?

In our church we do attract a lot of young adults. They’re very spiritual people who are hungry for something. They’re looking for a connection that not only feeds them inwardly but also allows them to help. They have that outlook of the 1960s where everybody wanted to go out and do something, but they want to do it in the confines of a spiritual relationship. Whether that’s the Christian church I don’t know. From my contact with African-American young adults, I see that spirituality is present but they’re disillusioned with the church, with scandals that have gone on and with the church talking one thing on Sundays and living something totally different.

If we can connect our upward reach to God and our outward reach to humanity, we will attract that young adult group. That’s what they’re hungry for; they want to see some consistency in our walk of faith.

Q: You have critiqued the modern prosperity gospel. How do you reconcile the popularity and appeal of that approach with the deep yearning that you’re sensing?

There has been an increase in transfers into our church from people who come from that kind of a background, because they’re struggling for something more. It sounded good. It seemed to scratch where people itched right then, because we want to be better off financially. This seemed like the easiest way -- all I have to do is call to God and name what I want, or walk around that car seven times and it’s mine. People see they still don’t have it. Life still is not complete. People want something more.

People see that “name it and claim it” is not working. Maybe it’s working for the pastor. They’re flying their private jets and driving their Bentleys, and they’re prospering very well, but the common person in the pew is still struggling to pay bills.

We need churches that bring a holistic approach to the gospel, because Jesus not only talked about healing and deliverance. Jesus talked about sacrifice. Jesus talked about a cross. You’ve got to go through Good Friday before you experience Easter Sunday. The prosperity gospel is all about Easter Sunday and mentions nothing about Friday.

Q: The youth ministry program at St. Luke is pretty impressive. The confirmation class goes for 32 weeks, September to spring, with mandatory attendance, for example. Can you tell us about that?

A church member wrote the material for the confirmation class. It covers the gamut, not only of United Methodism, but also of the African-American experience within Methodism. When kids come out of that course, they probably know more about the Christian faith than many adults in the congregation. The kids also have mandatory outreach projects.

For World Communion Sunday we usually have a joint worship with Lovers Lane United Methodist Church, which is a predominately Anglo, upper-middle-class congregation. This year, for the first time, we met before the service to have a dialogue about race relations; we required the young people to be there. It was amazing to see those young people talk about that conversation. We invest a lot in our youth, not only through the confirmation Sunday School class.

At St. Luke every ministry -- whether it’s a youth ministry, a young adult ministry or an adult ministry -- must participate in projects outside of the church. It’s a requirement that includes the usher board, the choirs; every single ministry we have. You have to be outside the church doing some hands-on outreach in ministry.

We instill the habit of thinking beyond themselves in our young people, and it produces a different kind of mindset in that next generation. Those young people who were in that confirmation group when I first got to St. Luke, they are young adults now, in college and out of college, and they have a different mindset about helping people. It’s not all about what I can get out of this, but what I can do to benefit others.

Q: Instead of making it easy, you’re asking for quite a commitment. How do the youth respond?

It’s a commitment because discipleship is a commitment. We’ve moved away from just building church membership, and started making some disciples. That’s what the Great Commission was. Jesus didn’t say, “Go and make me some church members.” He said, “Go and make disciples.” That’s a big difference. We’re trying to move from just claiming Jesus as our Savior to living as if he is our Lord and in control of our life.

We always make light of the saying “What would Jesus do?” -- I do, sometimes -- because a lot of people say that, but I don’t think they really want to know. [But] as a disciple, really reflect on that: What would Jesus do?

At all of our church council meetings and staff meetings we keep a vacant chair at the middle of the gathering. The council chair does not sit there. I do not sit there. We sit on either side of it, and we say, “That’s Jesus’ seat.” Whenever we vote on anything we look at that seat. What would the head of the church really do? It’s a symbolic question to really make us think, “Are we doing this for ourselves or are we doing it for the kingdom?”

Q: Your predecessor, Zan Holmes, was at St. Luke for 43 years and was one of the United Methodist Church’s most influential pastors. What advice would you give to a pastor who’s following a long-time, popular leader?

When somebody asks me how you follow a legend, I say, “Carefully.” You step very carefully. Pastor Holmes and I have a close relationship and that has made a difference in this transition. He is almost like a father figure, my father in ministry. We met my first day on campus at Perkins School of Theology. Not only was he the pastor of St. Luke, but he was the preaching professor at Perkins as well. He took me under his wing. He had something to do with all four appointments I’ve had. He recommended me for my very first appointment in Little Rock, Ark., and my placement in Kansas. He’s the one that opened the doors.

He invited me to preach at St. Luke on the Sunday that he announced his retirement. I had no idea he was announcing that day and I said, “Man, why did you do this to me?” He said, “Oh, this is just God working.”

I’ve tried to honor his legacy in every way. Many pastors who go into a situation like that try to undo a lot of things that the previous pastor achieved. They try to wipe away that legacy instead of embracing it. I know how I got here. I know why I’m here. He had a lot to do with my coming. If somebody wants him to come back and do a wedding I have no problem with that. Somebody wants him to come back and do a funeral I have no problem with that. He has his own parking place. He still uses our e-mail address. He is the pastor emeritus of that congregation, and I still look to him for guidance.

United Methodists really don’t do these kinds of transitions very well. One Sunday the long-term pastor is there, and then the next Sunday somebody else is up there. We don’t give people time to grieve. We don’t give time for a smooth transition. I wish I could have come on board maybe a year before and just served with him side-by-side. I think even though the transition was smooth, it would have been much smoother if I’d had opportunity to do that.

Pastor Holmes allowed me to fly in and meet with church leaders every week from March, when they announced I was coming, to my official arrival in July. That helped with the transition. He was still there, and I could talk with him. Even in that time period while he was still there, he didn’t allow any major decisions to be made without calling me. No staff changes were made without my input. Then, Pastor Holmes stayed away for two or three years. I begged him to come back to preach, but he just said, “I’ve seen what other pastors have gone through, and I do not want that to happen to you.”

Q: It sounds like he did a wonderful job laying the groundwork for your arrival. Were there still any particular challenges in the transition?

There will always be challenges to living under a significant legacy. If you change anything, people feel you’re saying something negative about what has gone on before. One of my greatest blessings is when Pastor Holmes comes and he comments on how much he loves the changes and says we are going in the right direction. That quiets any challenges I might have. He’ll still talk to people if I ask him. I say, “Hey, Zan, I’m having some issues with so-and-so.” He’ll talk to them, and it’s a new day after he gets through.

Q: Is there anything else on your mind that we need to get across today?

I really feel a passion about reaching younger clergy and bringing younger clergy in and mentoring them and coaching them into this ministry. In United Methodism we’re not hitting that ball yet. We’re striking out. We’re going to have a price to pay.

We are so tied to tradition and what has always been that in many respects we’ve not been open to new ways of ministry. I think of John Wesley’s famous remark, “I am not afraid that the people called Methodists should ever cease to exist…But I am afraid lest they should only exist as a dead sect, having the form of religion without the power.” I think sometimes that’s where we’re headed unless we get that fire back in us, that evangelistic zeal to spread scriptural holiness throughout the land.

Q: Is there a tension between being tied to tradition and trying to make changes?

I believe we could do it; we could build on the tradition and not be imprisoned by it. For instance, even in worship we always have this war between contemporary and traditional. I believe they can live together in harmony. In our worship we’re blended. I don’t have a contemporary worship and then another one that’s traditional. They’re both identical

We can hold on to our tradition but also be open to new theology. I have a saying in the church that we are operating with an eight-track mentality in an iPod world.